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RE: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?

To: xen-users <xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?
From: "lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:43:20 -0600
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Actually, the thread got a bit convoluted but the idea remains the same.

I'm not sure how the thread got to having sides but as I recall, I said I 
'wished' there was such a beast out there and that gui tools are good to have 
for non tech users.

Personally, I've been installing xen from command line and my point was that 
xen could become that much more popular for another level of user if there were 
turn key solutions. Turn key meaning ISO's, such as many projects out there 

What's cool about all of it is that it doesn't matter either way, everyone gets 
what they want. Those who love cli can always use cli or as I called it, old 
school, which I certainly didn't mean anything by since it's my main way too :).

As we've now seen, Thiago is working on a full ISO install which will be very 
useful to those who aren't as strong in command line as others.

Choices, that's all I really meant. Nothing wrong with countless versions of 
something if it finds a home.


On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:25:24 -0500, Dustin Henning wrote:
> Not to argue, but to point out something else that might be getting
> overlooked, when I installed Fedora 8, I had the option to choose
> Virtualization packages including Xen and virt-manager, which manages Xen
> (among other virtualization options) and includes a GUI.  There is certainly
> room for improvement and functionality in virt-manager, and there is the
> obvious caveat that each distro that has such a system might have its own
> GUI system in this type of install from CD.  However, an alternative that is
> any more turnkey than that, and as such, closer to XenServer Enterprise (and
> perhaps esx) is for someone to start a project where they generate their own
> linux from scratch which is made specifically for running xen, and in doing
> so, all that person is really doing is creating yet another distro with yet
> another set of tools.  However, such a project would probably be welcome by
> users and could potentially include various tools that have been mentioned
> in this thread.  Regardless, I would like to say that Nick's post reflects
> my opinions pretty well regarding this entire thread, and I'm not so sure
> that they aren't the same opinions shared by various others who may seem to
> be arguing.
> Dustin
> From: xen-users-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:xen-users-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nick Couchman
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:54
> To: Thomas Goirand; lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: xen-users
> Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?
> I think there are a couple of parts to this and that saying "keeping things
> old school" is over-simplifying the situation.  Yes, Xen needs to keep a CLI
> in the product.  CLI isn't just old school - there are plenty of people
> still using CLI, and they aren't just the people who have been working on
> computers for 30 or 40 years.  CLIs offer flexibility, they're easier to
> automate, they help when trying to debug problems.  There are many, many
> advantages to having a CLI.  However, if the argument is that we should keep
> things to CLI only, I don't think that's what anyone is saying.
> I can also see the benefits of having an easy-to-use GUI interface for Xen -
> a "turn-key" solution, if you like.  VMware definitely has an advantage in
> that you install their product (ESX or ESXi), configure a few things like
> your network interfaces and datastores (both relatively simple tasks in
> ESX/ESXi), and start creating VMs.  ESX manages to maintain a decent amount
> of flexibility, especially when it comes to defining networks.  However,
> there are areas where VMware lacks flexibility, especially areas like
> storage management, hardware support, etc.
> There's also a disagreement over how to offer/implement that sort of
> solution.  People like Mike (users vs. developers) don't really care how the
> solution is offered or implemented, they just want a disc that you can pop
> into a drive, run through a fairly automated install process and come out
> with a working Xen host on the other end.  That's a great goal - it makes
> Xen easier to use for people who either don't have the time or expertise to
> fiddle with all of the intricacies of getting Xen and Linux running from
> scratch.  However, there are others who want to make sure that the
> "turn-key" solution is implemented properly - these are the people who are
> arguing that the Xen package itself should not include the GUI.  Xen is the
> hypervisor, the GUI ought to be a separate package that interacts with the
> hypervisor, not something that gets bundled up into the hypervisor.  (As a
> side note, ESX/ESXi is built in a very similar fashion - there's the
> VMKernel, which is the actual hypervisor, and there are a couple of dozen
> packages added to give the web functionality, volume management, clustering,
> client interface, etc.  However, to Mike's point, he doesn't have to know
> all this - he just throws the disc in the drive and it works.  Of course,
> you can only manage it from Windows...)
> Anyway, that's just my two bits on the matter - I don't think that what
> people on both sides of the issue are saying is incompatible or
> unattainable, it just isn't ready right now.  Too bad...
> -Nick
>>>> Thomas Goirand <thomas@xxxxxxxxxx> 2009/02/24 23:45 >>>
> lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>> You want to keep things old school, [...] keep it cli
> I wont continue to talk about this topic again because it seems Mike and
> he doesn't want people to reply to his posts, but I still want to say
> that NO, this is not what I think.
> Thomas
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