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RE: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?

To: "'Nick Couchman'" <Nick.Couchman@xxxxxxxxx>, "'Thomas Goirand'" <thomas@xxxxxxxxxx>, <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?
From: "Dustin Henning" <Dustin.Henning@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:25:24 -0500
Cc: 'xen-users' <xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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        Not to argue, but to point out something else that might be getting
overlooked, when I installed Fedora 8, I had the option to choose
Virtualization packages including Xen and virt-manager, which manages Xen
(among other virtualization options) and includes a GUI.  There is certainly
room for improvement and functionality in virt-manager, and there is the
obvious caveat that each distro that has such a system might have its own
GUI system in this type of install from CD.  However, an alternative that is
any more turnkey than that, and as such, closer to XenServer Enterprise (and
perhaps esx) is for someone to start a project where they generate their own
linux from scratch which is made specifically for running xen, and in doing
so, all that person is really doing is creating yet another distro with yet
another set of tools.  However, such a project would probably be welcome by
users and could potentially include various tools that have been mentioned
in this thread.  Regardless, I would like to say that Nick's post reflects
my opinions pretty well regarding this entire thread, and I'm not so sure
that they aren't the same opinions shared by various others who may seem to
be arguing.

From: xen-users-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:xen-users-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nick Couchman
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:54
To: Thomas Goirand; lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: xen-users
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Anything come close to esx for xen?

I think there are a couple of parts to this and that saying "keeping things
old school" is over-simplifying the situation.  Yes, Xen needs to keep a CLI
in the product.  CLI isn't just old school - there are plenty of people
still using CLI, and they aren't just the people who have been working on
computers for 30 or 40 years.  CLIs offer flexibility, they're easier to
automate, they help when trying to debug problems.  There are many, many
advantages to having a CLI.  However, if the argument is that we should keep
things to CLI only, I don't think that's what anyone is saying.
I can also see the benefits of having an easy-to-use GUI interface for Xen -
a "turn-key" solution, if you like.  VMware definitely has an advantage in
that you install their product (ESX or ESXi), configure a few things like
your network interfaces and datastores (both relatively simple tasks in
ESX/ESXi), and start creating VMs.  ESX manages to maintain a decent amount
of flexibility, especially when it comes to defining networks.  However,
there are areas where VMware lacks flexibility, especially areas like
storage management, hardware support, etc.
There's also a disagreement over how to offer/implement that sort of
solution.  People like Mike (users vs. developers) don't really care how the
solution is offered or implemented, they just want a disc that you can pop
into a drive, run through a fairly automated install process and come out
with a working Xen host on the other end.  That's a great goal - it makes
Xen easier to use for people who either don't have the time or expertise to
fiddle with all of the intricacies of getting Xen and Linux running from
scratch.  However, there are others who want to make sure that the
"turn-key" solution is implemented properly - these are the people who are
arguing that the Xen package itself should not include the GUI.  Xen is the
hypervisor, the GUI ought to be a separate package that interacts with the
hypervisor, not something that gets bundled up into the hypervisor.  (As a
side note, ESX/ESXi is built in a very similar fashion - there's the
VMKernel, which is the actual hypervisor, and there are a couple of dozen
packages added to give the web functionality, volume management, clustering,
client interface, etc.  However, to Mike's point, he doesn't have to know
all this - he just throws the disc in the drive and it works.  Of course,
you can only manage it from Windows...)
Anyway, that's just my two bits on the matter - I don't think that what
people on both sides of the issue are saying is incompatible or
unattainable, it just isn't ready right now.  Too bad...

>>> Thomas Goirand <thomas@xxxxxxxxxx> 2009/02/24 23:45 >>>
lists@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> You want to keep things old school, [...] keep it cli

I wont continue to talk about this topic again because it seems Mike and
he doesn't want people to reply to his posts, but I still want to say
that NO, this is not what I think.


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