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Re: [PATCH RESEND 2/2] xen: Allow EXPERT mode to be selected from the menuconfig directly

Hi Ian,

Thank you for the clarification.

On 07/05/2020 18:01, Ian Jackson wrote:
Julien Grall writes ("Re: [PATCH RESEND 2/2] xen: Allow EXPERT mode to be selected 
from the menuconfig directly"):
On 04/05/2020 13:34, Ian Jackson wrote:
George Dunlap writes ("Re: [PATCH RESEND 2/2] xen: Allow EXPERT mode to be selected 
from the menuconfig directly"):
On Apr 30, 2020, at 3:50 PM, Jan Beulich <JBeulich@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, if I'm not mis-remembering it was on purpose to make it more
difficult for people to declare themselves "experts". FAOD I'm not
meaning to imply I don't see and accept the frustration aspect you
mention further up. The two need to be carefully weighed against
one another.

Yes, it was on purpose.  However, I had my doubts at the time and
I think experience has shown that this was a mistake.

I don’t think we need to make it difficult for people to declare
themselves experts, particularly as “all” it means at the moment is,
“Can build something which is not security supported”.  People who
are building their own hypervisors are already pretty well advanced;
I think we can let them shoot themselves in the foot if they want


Can I consider this as an Acked-by? :)

I am happy with the principle of the change.  I haven't reviewed the
details of the commit message etc.

I reviewed the thread and there were two concernes raised:

  * The question of principle.  I disagree with this concern
    because I approve of principle of the patch.

  * Some detail about the precise justificaton as written in
    the commit message, regarding `clean' targets.  Apparently the
    assertion may not be completely true.  I haven't seen a proposed
    alternative wording.

I have checked the latest staging, the `clean` target doesn't trash .config anymore.

I don't feel I should ack a controversial patch with an unresolved
wording issue.  Can you tell me what your proposed wording is ?
To avoid blocking this change I would be happy to review your wording
and see if it meets my reading of the stated objection.

Here a suggested rewording:

"EXPERT mode is currently used to gate any options that are in technical
preview or not security supported At the moment, the only way to select
it is to use XEN_CONFIG_EXPERT=y on the make command line.

However, if the user forget to add the option when (re)building or when using menuconfig, then .config will get rewritten. This may lead to a rather frustrating experience as it is difficult to diagnostic the

A lot of the options behind EXPERT would benefit to be more accessible so user can experiment with it and voice any concern before they are fully be supported.

So rather than making really difficult to experiment or tweak your Xen (for instance by adding a built-in command line), this option can now be selected from the menuconfig.

This doesn't change the fact a Xen with EXPERT mode selected will not be security supported.


Julien Grall



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