Hi Jonathan,
Thanks for such a great explanation, I want to digest everything and
try out some experiments, I will definitely follow up if I have any
more questions.
Thanks!
David
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Jonathan Knowles
<jonathan.knowles@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi David
>
>> Hi all, So I have been playing around with XCP and the static/dynamic
>> memory parameters. I have a few behavioral questions I would like to
>> pin down:
>>
>> -Is the static-max quantity of free memory on the host always
>> required before the guest vm can be started? I assume so since you
>> don't know a-priori if the guest you are booting supports Xen or not.
>> But if this is true, what is the use of static-min? When I boot a
>> guest does it just determine the highest memory it can take in the
>> range of static-min to static-max, given any ability to shrink other
>> guests that have Xen-enabled kernels?
>
> XCP supports the ability to dynamically add and remove memory
> from a running guest, without rebooting that guest.
>
> In order to add or remove memory, XCP relies on the action of
> a co-operating balloon driver running within each guest. XCP
> can decrease guest memory by asking the balloon driver to return
> memory to Xen, or increase memory by asking it to re-allocate
> memory from Xen.
>
> The balloon driver achieves this by maintaining a memory
> "balloon" within the guest's physical memory space. While pages
> are within the balloon, Xen is able to use those pages for other
> guests on the same host.
>
> To "inflate" the balloon (and thus reduce the apparent size of
> a guest) a balloon driver will use an OS-specific memory
> allocation function to allocate pinned physical memory pages
> from the guest OS, thus artificially increasing memory pressure
> within the guest. It can then return those pages to Xen (to be
> reused by other guests).
>
> To "deflate" the balloon (and thus increase the apparent size of
> a guest) a balloon driver will allocate memory pages from Xen,
> and then use an OS-specific memory deallocation function to
> return the memory pages back to the guest OS, thus decreasing
> memory pressure within the guest.
>
> XCP provides four memory configuration fields through which
> administrators can control this behaviour:
>
> * static-min
> * dynamic-min
> * dynamic-max
> * static-max
>
> The fields static-{min,max} act as *hard* lower and upper
> bounds for a guest's memory. For a running guest:
> * it's not possible to assign the guest more memory than
> static-max without first shutting down the guest.
> * it's not possible to assign the guest less memory than
> static-min without first shutting down the guest.
>
> The fields dynamic-{min,max} act as *soft* lower and upper
> bounds for a guest's memory. It's possible to change these
> fields even when a guest is running.
>
> The dynamic range must lie wholly within the static range. To
> put it another way, XCP at all times ensures that:
>
> static-min <= dynamic-min <= dynamic-max <= static-max
>
> At all times, XCP will attempt to keep a guest's memory usage
> between dynamic-min and dynamic-max.
>
> If dynamic-min = dynamic-max, then XCP will attempt to keep
> a guest's memory allocation at a constant size.
>
> If dynamic-min < dynamic-max, then XCP will attempt to give
> the guest as much memory as possible, while keeping the guest
> within dynamic-min and dynamic-max.
>
> If there is enough memory on a given host to give all resident
> guests dynamic-max, then XCP will attempt do so.
>
> If there is not enough memory to give all guests dynamic-max,
> then XCP will ask each of the guests (on that host) to use
> an amount of memory that is the same *proportional* distance
> between dynamic-min and dynamic-max.
>
> XCP will refuse to start guests if starting those guests would
> cause the sum of all the dynamic-min values to exceed the total
> host memory (taking into account various memory overheads).
>
>> -For guests running xen-enabled kernels, wouldn't it actually be
>> better if dynamic-max could be higher than static-max? IE you could
>> imagine that you have a lot of VMs running on one host, to start new
>> ones you need to have them boot with a small amount of physical
>> memory (say 256MB), but if any one of them is under memory pressure
>> you would like it to be able to grow up to some cap, say 1024MB or
>> some such, pending free memory being available to pull from other
>> guests, or just plain free on the host.
>
> As mentioned above, at all times XCP ensures that:
>
> static-min <= dynamic-min <= dynamic-max <= static-max
>
>> -I have a host with 4GB of memory, I configured 3 debian lenny
>> guests all running the xen-enabled kernel, they were set to have
>> static max of 3GB, static min of 256MB, dynamic-max of 512MB,
>> dynamic-min of 256MB. I logged in to one of them and put significant
>> memory pressure on it, hoping I could get guest's memory to grow
>> while the others were idle. However my experience was the guest's
>> would set their memory directly at whatever dynamic-max is set to.
>
> This is expected. In this case, the host has more than enough
> memory to assign all guests memory equal to their dynamic-max.
>
>> Is there any way for the guests to adjust their memory footprint on
>> the fly based on their memory pressure? IE what I'd really like is:
>>
>> --boot-memory: the quantity of memory used to boot the guest,
>> similar to static-max --dynamic-max: the largest quantity of memory
>> the guest could potentially grow to, this could be greater than
>> boot-memory
>
> In principle, there's no reason why this couldn't be done.
> Indeed, I agree such a system would be highly desirable.
>
> However, in practice I believe it's quite difficult for a
> number of reasons:
>
> One problem is that modern operating systems attempt to maximise
> their performance by using a large proportion (if not all) of
> their spare memory for buffers. It's hard to know by inspecting
> a VM just how much of its memory can be reclaimed without
> hurting performance.
>
> I believe it's fairly easy to tell when a guest is in trouble,
> (by inspecting the page fault rate) but rather more difficult
> to tell how much additional memory is required to lift a guest
> out of trouble and back into its comfort zone.
>
> Another problem is that it's difficult to react quickly enough
> when a previously-starved guest has a sudden instantaneous
> requirement for more memory. What if the memory is not
> available?
>
> Finally, I suspect it may be difficult (but not impossible) to
> come up with measures of memory pressure that work well across
> different operating system families running on the same host,
> without inadventantly producing a system with bias towards a
> particular OS family.
>
>> And then through a combination of ballooning, etc, for kernel
>> supported guests you could keep the actual dynamic memory as low as
>> possible (without damaging performance), but allow other guests that
>> need to temporarily grow/shrink to do so. This would all need some
>> sort of fairness policy etc. Is anything like this currently
>> enabled in XCP? And if not, what components exist, or would be needed
>> for something like this?
>
> This isn't currently enabled in XCP, but there's no technical
> reason why someone couldn't build a plug-in for this.
>
> As mentioned above, XCP currently implements a proportional
> policy w.r.t. to determining how much memory (between dynamic-
> min and dynamic-max) to assign to a guest.
>
> This policy is actually implemented not by xapi, but by a
> special daemon that runs in domain 0 - namely the "ballooning"
> or "squeezing" daemon ("squeezed" for short).
>
> It would be fairly easy to replace this daemon within another
> one, to implement almost any policy you could imagine.
>
> Assuming it's possible to find a good measure of guest memory
> pressure (presumably by overcoming the problems listed above),
> then it would certainly be possible to write a daemon to
> implement the policy.
>
> If you're interested in writing an alternative policy, then
> the first place to have a look is at the current policy
> implementation in ocaml/xenops/squeeze_*.ml.
>
> I hope you find these answers helpful. If not, or if you have
> more questions then by all means feel free to ask them on the
> "xen-api" list and we'll try to help. :)
>
> All the best
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Knowles
> Citrix Systems
>
_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
|
Home