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Re: [Xen-devel] OOM problems

To: John Weekes <lists.xen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Xen-devel] OOM problems
From: Daniel Stodden <daniel.stodden@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 02:41:23 -0800
Cc: Ian Pratt <Ian.Pratt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "xen-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <xen-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Jan Beulich <JBeulich@xxxxxxxxxx>
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On Thu, 2010-11-18 at 02:15 -0500, John Weekes wrote:
> > I think [XCP blktap] should work fine, or wouldn't ask. If not, lemme know.
> k.
> >> In my last bit of troubleshooting, I took O_DIRECT out of the open call
> >> in tools/blktap2/drivers/block-aio.c, and preliminary testing indicates
> >> that this might have eliminated the problem with corruption. I'm testing
> >> further now, but could there be an issue with alignment (since the
> >> kernel is apparently very strict about it with direct I/O)?
> > Nope. It is, but they're 4k-aligned all over the place. You'd see syslog
> > yelling quite miserably in cases like that. Keeping an eye on syslog
> > (the daemon and kern facilites) is a generally good idea btw.
> I've been doing that and haven't seen any unusual output so far, which I 
> guess is good.
> >> (Removing
> >> this flag also brings back in use of the page cache, of course.)
> > I/O-wise it's not much different from the file:-path. Meaning it should
> > have carried you directly back into the Oom realm.
> Does it make a difference that it's not using "loop" and instead the CPU 
> usage (and presumably some blocking) occurs in user-space?

It's certainly a different path taken. I just meant to say file access
has about the same properties, so you're likely back to the original

>  There's not 
> too much information on this out there, but it seems at though the OOM 
> issue might be at least somewhat loop device-specific. One document that 
> references loop OOM problems that I found is this one: 
> http://sources.redhat.com/lvm2/wiki/DMLoop.

>  My initial take on it was 
> that it might be saying that it mattered when these things were being 
> done in the kernel, but now I'm not so certain --
> ".. [their method and loop] submit[s] [I/O requests] via a kernel thread 
> to the VFS layer using traditional I/O calls (read, write etc.). This 
> has the advantage that it should work with any file system type 
> supported by the Linux VFS (including networked file systems), but has 
> some drawbacks that may affect performance and scalability. This is 
> because it is hard to predict what a file system may attempt to do when 
> an I/O request is submitted; for example, it may need to allocate memory 
> to handle the request and the loopback driver has no control over this. 
> Particularly under low-memory or intensive I/O scenarios this can lead 
> to out of memory (OOM) problems or deadlocks as the kernel tries to make 
> memory available to the VFS layer while satisfying a request from the 
> block layer. "
> Would there be an advantage to using blktap/blktap2 over loop, if I 
> leave off O_DIRECT? Would it be faster, or anything like that?

No, it's essentially the same thing. Both blktap and loopdevs sit on the
vfs in a similar fashion, without O_DIRECT even more so. The deadlocking
and OOM hazards are also the same, btw.

Deadlocks are a fairly general problem whenever you layer two subsystems
depending on the same resource on top of each other. Both in the blktap
and loopback case the system has several opportunities to hang itself,
because there's even more stuff stacked than normal. The layers are, top
to bottom

 (1) potential caching of {tap/loop}dev writes (Xen doesn't do that) 
 (2) The block device, which needs some minimum amount of memory to run 
     its request queue
 (3) Cached writes on the file layer
 (4) The filesystem needs memory to launder those pages
 (5) The disk's block device, equivalent to 2.
 (6) The driver driver running the data transfers.

The shared resource is memory. Now consider what happens when upper
layers in combination grab everything the lower layers need to make
progress. The upper layer can't roll back, so won't get off their memory
before that happened. So we're stuck.

It shouldn't happen, the kernel has a bunch of mechanisms to prevent
that. It obviously doesn't quite work here.

That's why I'm suggesting that the most obvious fix for your case is to
limit the cache dirtying rate.

> > Just reducing the cpu count alone sounds like sth worth trying even on a
> > production box, if the current state of things already tends to take the
> > system down. Also, the dirty_ratio sysctl should be pretty safe to tweak
> > at runtime.
> That's good to hear.
> >> The default for dirty_ratio is 20. I tried halving that to 10, but it
> >> didn't help.
> > Still too much. That's meant to be %/task. Try 2, with 1.5G that's still
> > a decent 30M write cache and should block all out of 24 disks after some
> > 700M, worst case. Or so I think...
> Ah, ok. I was thinking that it was global. With a small per-process 
> cache like that, it becomes much closer to AIO for writes, but at least 
> the leftover memory could still be used for the read cache.

I agree it doesn't do what you want. I have no idea why there's no
global limit, seriously.

Note that in theory, 24*2% would still approach the oom state you were
in with the log you sent. I think it's going to be less likely though.
With all guests going mad at the same time, it may still not be low
enough. In case that happens, you could resort to pumping even more
memory into dom0.


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